Cathy Quiogue
Posted on 22. Oct, 2009 by Cathy Quiogue in Oplan Pepe
Hello!
I know I am in the minority here but I feel the need to stand up for my faith, too. Hope you have room for dissenting views as well.
1. I have grown to love and appreciate the Catholic faith even more now that I am an adult. The more I learn about its history and its tenets, the more I treasure my faith.
2. Priests are only men, human beings, so they can make mistakes. I have been sickened by the scandal of the pedophile priests especially in the US but they are distinct from the faith itself. Jesus Christ is the eternal High Priest and Mediator between God and Man and will remain the model of the priest.
I do not and will never based my faith on the actions of the priests alone.
3. As I have said, the Church is not meddling in state affairs when it speaks out against the RH bill because this concerns a moral decision. It would be highly remiss of her to be silent when she should be helping her flock in forming good consciences to help them make good decisions.
Should the Church be silent when the government steals from the public? Just as she can’t be silent in the moral aspects of political life, she can’t also be silent in matters where conscience and morality matter.
4. History has kindly judged Cardinal Sin who needled and criticized the Marcos dictatorship constantly and he was instrumental in bringing us our freedom. Was he wrong to have “meddled” in our politics back then?
In fact, the media has criticized the CBCP for their silence on GMA’s corruption and has even gone as far as saying that the Church has lost her moral ascendancy because of her silence. So it seems a damn-if-you-do-and-damn-if-you-don’t proposition for the Church.
Many people are still looking to the Church for moral guidance, so it behooves her to do her duty by being faithful to her role and commission here on earth.
Thank you very much and I wish you all well.
“As I have said, the Church is not meddling in state affairs when it speaks out against the RH bill because this concerns a moral decision. It would be highly remiss of her to be silent when she should be helping her flock in forming good consciences to help them make good decisions.”
Ah. So telling people that they will go to hell for using condoms or for voting for candidates that support reproductive health is only “speaking out”? I dunno, Cathy that sounds like spiritual and emotional BLACKMAIL to me.
I don’t know. I’m not buying it. The Church has great power. And which that, comes great responsibility.
And as of late they have been completely irresponsible with the use of that power (the pope publicly saying in AFRICA that condoms cause AIDS is a hideously fine example of that irresponsibility and denial of scientific fact).
Plus, your admission that the priests actions should not be taken as a basis of your faith also shows that even YOU HAVE YOUR OWN DOUBTS about the infallibility of the heirarchy. You just proved our point right.
Faith is a personal choice not a political one. Thanks for confirming that. And the prevention of it being a political one is exactly why we are here. Glad that in some odd way, we are on the same page here.
Good on you for expressing yourself too. Cheers!
Cathy
I don’t understand how you still love the Catholic Church after looking at its history. Its history is riddled with war, corruption and crime. AND fickleness in what it believes.
How certain are you that God even exists? You seem awfully sure of yourself.
Yes it is fine for the Church to speak out its mind. That’s a part of Freedom of Speech. But there is something wrong when it spreads false information about sex and contraceptives.
Yes priests are only men, but shouldn’t they be held accountable for their evil deeds? just like in any other organization, corporation or nation in the world? All the Catholic Church has done is hide their crimes.
and yes Cardinal Sin was instrumental in the removal of the Marcos regime, but it was in exchange for a shoddy separation of (the Catholic) Church and State. This isn’t really freedom. They have so much influence on government today that they impose their morals on the rest of those that don’t believe in them.
Carlos, I don’t think it’s really emotional or spiritual blackmail as it is reminding people that there are moral and spiritual consequences to their actions. After all, as Catholics, we are morally bound by what our faith teaches and if we don’t follow that, there are consequences–surely that’s logical.
I think what the pope meant was that the mindset of people who depend too much on condoms as the answer to AIDS can cause them to adopt risky sexual behavior that could lead to AIDS.
You misunderstood my nod to the fallability of priests. The institution of the Church may be made up of fallible men (tho in certain cases, the Holy Father can speak infallibly) but it is built and founded by Christ Himself, who has personally assured us that tho the gates of hell will rail against it, it will not prevail, and that He will be with us till the end of time. That’s assurance enough for me. So the Church will still be around long after you and I have gone.
Faith isn’t only a personal choice, it’s also a personal relationship with Someone, who happens to be our Lord, Jesus Christ.
Kako, you can only be certain of things if you have felt or seen them in your life and yes, I AM certain that God exists because I have seen and felt God’s loving presence and power in my life. What else can i say.
How can i love the Church after all that? Again, I love her because as I said, Christ gave her to us. As for her bloody history, it’s not a church run by angels; on the other hand, she’s given us men and women like Francis of Assisi, Padre Pio, and Teresa of Avila.
False info about sex and contraceptives? you could say the same about gov’t clinics and the like–Rep Lagman and media at large continue to peddle the wrong notion about natural family planning by comparing it this way: modern contraceptive methods and the natural way. Doesn’t this plant the seed in people’s minds that the NFP is old-fashioned and therefore not reliable?
Yes, the Church has greatly erred in its handling of the pedophile priests and yes these priests deserved to be brought to justice and yes some in the Church hierarchy have hid their crimes. Now the whole Church is being punished for it.
As for Church influence, you will find this surprising but I don’t think it’s as influential as you think it is. It’s just that Media seems to have a knee-jerk reaction to always ask for the opinion of the bishops whenever there’s an issue and so they always seem to be in the media. The fact that Erap won and you have your organization and many Catholics are for the RH bill belie your assertion.
finally, as a Catholic, I’d rather hear the Church speak up when she needs to in issues that involve the moral choices of her flock, than hear only deafening silence.
Cheers as well to you both!
Interesting points you raised, Cathy. I’d have to disagree on the Cardinal Sin and Marcos bit, though. I think times were different then and the dictatorship so sickening that no one had any recourse but to cry out in protest. I laud Cardinal Sin’s courage in the face of what could’ve been a fatal decision to speak up.
Times are also quite different now. Allow me to venture a guess as to why the Catholic church is choosing to stay mum on GMA’s alleged exploits. Maybe it has a lot to do with the fact that the church’s involvement back in 2001 had a lot to do with granting her the presidency when Erap was ousted. Wasn’t the church instrumental during that famed (possibly regretted??) Edsa Dos? And the church, being full of, as you admitted, fallible men with fallible prides, might not want to be associated with mistake after mistake.
Just a thought.
Cathy
Personal but it needs to be questioned. When and where have you seen and felt god? tell me.
The pope should’ve expressed that better then and not say something false about contraceptives.
I don’t want to talk about how the concept of hell is spiritual blackmail because it is a touchy subject. but don’t you find it funny that the Church always uses hell in order to motivate people to do what it wants them to do?
how do you even know that Christ gave you the Roman Catholic church? The organizaion you are defending arose out of council 300 years AFTER the death of christ. early christianity was a group of beliefs that were very diverse and different from each other. how do you know that you got the right set of beliefs and that you haven’t lost the right ones to history? moreover, how sure are you that christianity is even correct? why not judaism or islam? or even the older polytheistic and animalistic faiths? they all make the claim that they are the true way, and that following other faiths will land you in hell.
How can you be a fan of Francis of Assissi?? he was famous for talking to animals! don’t you think that’s a bit crazy? and yes it’s given us virtuous men, but also take into account the rest of their flock. I think the bad outweighs the good here.
No it doesn’t. modern contraceptives have been proven in studies to be significantly more successful than natural family planning at population control
Actually you are wrong. the Church isn’t being punished for it.
And even if the catholic church does not speak up you won’t hear a deafening silence. there are other points of view out there. My problem with the church is that they claim theirs is superior to everyone else.
Pat I agree with you about the dictatorship. My only problem with Sin is that because of his influence, we didn’t end up with a concrete separation of church and state AFTER the dictatorship. I am not saying that the Marcos dictatorship is better than what we have today. What I am saying is that we had an authoritarian regime replaced with a democratic government with theocratic influences. which i think is wrong.
oh one more think. You’d think a perfect creator and his perfect son would be able to create a perfect church, because of their perfect natures. If the catholic church is the true church of god, wouldn’t you see perfection written all over it? you’d see his guiding hand with all clergy activity? Why is his guidance so hard to obtain? he is God after all… he is capable of anything because he is perfect right? it doesn’t add up.
thing. I seriously have to proofread before i submit
On condoms, Africa and the Pope, a world authority on the subject said the Pope is correct: No less than Harvard director of the AIDS Prevention Research Project at the Harvard Center for Population: “condoms have been proven to not be effective at the ‘level of population.”
Rational arguments for the existence of God
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm
http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/08_arguments-for-god.htm
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/gods-existence.htm
Kreeft thinks that there is a strong cumulative rational proof for God’s existence. He mentions 20.
Read this article: It seems to be more informed. It explains why condoms have been ineffective at limiting the spread of HIV in Africa but effective in other places.
http://www.queerty.com/the-pope-says-condoms-dont-fight-aids-could-he-be-right-20090330/
Cathy,
I have to say that indeed, you have all the right to say your piece on faith, on the Catholic Church which you choose to embrace, and on whatever else you want to speak on. Such is the beauty of the freedom of expression.
Like you, i speak my mind even in venues where i am the minority. And in this case, i choose to speak up on your major message — that the Church’s role is to give moral guidance.
11 women Filipino women die daily due to pregnancy and childbirth-related complications. The big number of those who die are women in poverty (because rich women can pay for whatever medical services they need) who do not have access to the reproductive health (RH) services they so need. The Church position against the RH Bill means that these crucial services will not be implemented. Thus, the massacre of our poor women will continue. Is this moral?
Studies show that about 30% of our young people think that HIV/AIDS is curable (YAFS3). We know this is not the case (yet). Moreover, 30% of annual births are those from teen-age pregnancies (DOH). The Church position against the RH Bill means that crucial age-appropriate information and education that will address our young people’s needs and can possibly make them more responsible in their relationships will not be implemented. Does the Church want our young people to remain ignorant and helpless? Is this moral?
A priest (Fr. Bing Arellano in his ‘Philippine RH Bill: A Moral Evil’, you can catch him on You Tube) said that the ideal number of children for Filipino families is 5-7. Studies show that Filipino women only want 2-3 children (NDHS2005) but that women in the poorest quintile of our population give birth to 3x as many children than those who are not poor. It is undeniable that there is a direct correlation between poverty and family size as data show that the poorest quintile is composed of the biggest families. Now don’t get me wrong, I AM NOT SAYING THAT HAVING MANY CHILDREN IS THE CAUSE OF POVERTY BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY OTHER FACTORS THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED. However, is it not reasonable to think that OVERCOMING POVERTY IS MORE DIFFICULT FOR BIG FAMILIES because of the very limited resources they can use and share with one another? Priests preach that having a big family is good even if one is dirt-poor. What about the quality of life of these people? Is this really moral?
The Catholic hierarchy also says that the object of sex is procreation. Thus, the position is that women’s and/or couples’ desire to only have 2-3 children SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED. Thus, the Church prohibits making available to THOSE WHO WANT AND NEED, the various scientifically proven and medically safe family planning methods. Couples should have as many children as possible. It does not matter if couples are unable to give these children the love and caring, the education, nourishment, health services, etc. these children have a right to. Is this moral?
Ah yes, there are the Natural Family Planning (NFP) methods. You might be surprised but the RH Bill does not go against NFP. In fact, the Bill wants to make available ALL methods so that women and couples can make real intelligent and informed choices (including NFP). However, it should be emphasized that NO ONE METHOD IS GOOD FOR EVERYBODY. The NFP presumes that everyone is in an ideal relationship. That the FULL COOPERATION of partners is readily there. Ever heard of women who are in unequal, even abusive relationships? There are a lot and in my line of work, it seems to be the norm rather than the excemption. So many women are unable (due to existing power dynamics) to make decisions by and for themselves. have you heard a woman say ‘ginamit ako ng asawa ko?’ referring to having sex with her husband/partner? Yes, Cathy, many women are still treated as ‘gamit.’ Would you expect these women to succeed in convincing their husbands/partners to use NFP? Would the Church want these women to remain powerless? Is this moral?
The same Fr. Arellano said that couples should have as many children as possible because our country is among the biggest labor exporters in the world! That this is our advantage over other countries. True, OFWs bring home billions of dollars and is the biggest reason why this country’s economy is kept afloat. BUT, have we taken a close look at the social costs of 10 million Filipinos working abroad? Have we looked into the problems of broken families? Have we addressed these problems? have we looked into the problems of millions of young people growing up with absentee parent/s? What? Let’s give birth to all these babies then let us work abroad and leave them behind because this is the country’s role in the international labor market?
Admittedly Cathy, i don’t understand the logic. I thought that the Roman Catholic Church is for the welfare of families but in this case, it seems to me that dollars are far more important than families. Is this moral?
I can go on and on but will still end with this: Because of all of the above, i dare say that the Catholic hierarchy in the Philippines (represented by the ‘imperfect men’ [i borrowed this from you] who speak for the Church), is remiss in its obligation to give moral guidance to its flock.
Like you, i am quite happy with my decision — to follow my concience and not any organized religion.
Peace!
@cathy
“As I have said, the Church is not meddling in state affairs when it speaks out against the RH bill because this concerns a moral decision. It would be highly remiss of her to be silent when she should be helping her flock in forming good consciences to help them make good decisions.”
freedom of expression is really a good thing though unfortunately, the catholic church uses this freedom to propagate lies (“THOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR!!”) in regards to the RH Bill like the YouTube priest who said the this bill will teach pornography to grade 2 and velarde’s ominous threat that this bill will lead us back to slavery… (then he thank god because his god brought us ondoy as a “reminder”)..
cathy, medyo OT ng konti, but how can you trust the pope to be infallible when he was a priest before (and thus, prone to sin)? if you were imperfect before, could you become perfect? it just doesnt make sense to me.